Category: philosophy/religion topics
Hi there:
I wanted to share a few things so that you can understand where I am coming from before I ask the question, and I would love to hear some feedback. I have had a belief in God for my entire life for the most part. I have prayed and I believe that my prayers have been answered during very specific circumstances.
I pretty much spent a majority of my teen-aged years participating in the Pentecostal and charismatic movements. I'm not saying that those movements are wrong or any such thing. I know that there are times when we have all been hurt by people, whether they are well-meaning or not. I know that we have all had positive and negative experiences in life, so I do not write this out of bitterness or spite. I suppose it is more of a musing.
You name it, I've been a part of it. From the Word of Faith movement that believes that if you are broke or have a disability or anything that is wrong then it is due to lack of faith or perhaps a generational curse passed down from one person to the other. To me, this seems to contradict the New Testament and the fact that Jesus is supposed to forgive sins. So the idea of one person's sin that took place before I was even born having anything to do with negative experiences in my life simply does not wash with me. I have also been a part of a movement that took a lot of stalk on prophecy and the gifts of the spirit.
I have prayed in tongues before and it was very real to me. I believe that I have had opportunities to allow the gifts of the Holy Spirit to flow through me. I have sung on praise and worship teams and believe that there have been incredible and emotionally healing things that have happened. I'd like to think that they were a result of the belief that I have had in God. I was very serious when I asked for Christ to come in to my heart when I was sixteen. I have had some very moving experiences.
I have not attended church in quite some time, at least not on a regular basis, save for a few times where I have sang solos. I don't know if I am feeling some discomfort. I know that the usual Christian response, at least in my experience, is that I am being convicted by God due to possibly backsliding. I think that the discomfort comes from my own insecurities about myself. I suppose I'm in a bit of a spiritual crisis. I envision myself as standing at some sort of crossroads, and while I'm not moving in any particular direction, I feel as though I'm going to move down a pathth at may take me away from something that I have grown up with for the majority of my life. And you know what? That scares the heck out of me.
It is a very strange place to be in. Emotionally, I feel afraid of what others will think of me if I veer off of this path. I hate the thought of being ridiculed. I am a very friendly person. There is also a great deal of uncertainty about even entertaining that there could be something different from the basic tenets that have been taught to me for my entire life.
I am considering attending a Unitarian church on Sunday. I know that they make all faiths welcome. I'd like to know more information on them if someone can tell me. If someone has had experiences with them, or even with this crisis that I'm going through at the moment, I would greatly appreciate it. I would ask that the replies don't include 'wow, you're wrong and you are backsliding.' or 'Well, there's no God, and Christianity isn't true.' because that will really push me away. I am sporting an open mind. at least, I certainly hope that I am.
Thank you for listening. I don't know what the answers are or if anyone can provide them to me right now. I don't expect a textbook answer. Hopefully maybe some understanding and encouragement. It'd be nice to know that I am not alone in this matter and that maybe someone has gone through this before and has found their path, be it Christianity or something else.
Warm hugs,
Meka
Hi Meka.
It's a good thing you don't expect a textbook answer, because you won't get one here.
I just want to assure you that your crisis of faith is not unusual or bad. You are merely exercising your God-given talent of free will, and free will is supposedly what separates mankind from the animal kingdom.
I, like you, was raised in a fairly conservative church, southern baptist. Though we didn't speak in tongues or lay on of hands, we didn't condemn those practices either. They just weren't part of our worship.
I once joined a pentacostal church for a while, had demons removed, had people try to heal me, and believed it all for a while. However, it eventually occured to me that based on the concepts I was learning, my mind and soul were nothing but the battle ground for God and Satan. If I did something good, God got the praise, and if I did something bad, Satan got the ignominious glory, and I wanted to be more than a mere battle ground.
I attended a Unitarian church for a short while (I am a liberal politically, and all liberals are supposed to go to the Unitarian Church). However, the Unitarian Church didn't meet my spiritual needs either. Whereas the people at the churches I was used to attending were truly glad to see me, and honestly had an interest in my existence in the after-life, the Unitarians were glad to see me too, but, merely as one pupil to another. It was kind of like the difference between a friend who is interested in your welfare, and an acquaintance who wishes you well in life.
So, I merely want to wish you well on your spiritual journey and hope you find what you are looking for. Let us know how it goes.
Bob
Dear Meka, I'm Catholic! But my friends are Baptist, Lutherian, and Jewish! I think you may be depressed! When my dad died, I couldn't get up to go to church! Of course there were days after I couldn't get out of bed! My mom said I was depressed! I'm ashamed of the times I didn't go to church! It's kind of like I was mad at God when my dad died! My mom made me go to a grief concelor! He was a Christian! He kind of explained everything! What is the Unitarian church? I've never heard of this branch of Christianity?
Hi there:
I know what you mean about feeling as though your mind is just one great big battleground. I understand that the Bible talks about moving from glory to glory, but it seemed to me that even where the church is concerned, whatever you did was never enough. I remember that we jumped from the Purpose Driven Life to some other bandwagon. Each time, it seemed that it wouldn't be enough so we had to keep going to seminars. I remember that being quite a frustration for me. So I wonder when is it enough. Of course I don't expect that we'll ever obtain perfection, I understand that. But at some point, shouldn't we take a moment to be thankful for the places that we have been brought? Shouldn't we take a moment and reflect, rather than jump from place to place?
Gosh, I SOUND WHINY and that is totaly not my intent. I guess I am just speaking my confusion and frustration.
Selena Fan, depression is certainly something that I have dealt with on and off. But, honestly, I don't feel depressed over anything in particular, except for this.
I think it is very easy to say that this confusion, this frustration, this uncertainty is painful in its own right. Sometimes, when I think of the enormity of it all, I feel as though the weight of the world is on my shoulders and that I might be crushed under the weight of it. And what's worse is that it's something beyond tears, beyond the superficial, even beyond the things that might hurt me the most. I can't even begin to describe it. Sometimes I feel like I am suffocating.
The fear of rejection or the thought of people thinking that I am a hellbound backslider makes me sick to my stomach. Sometimes I feel like I'm turning my back and being disrespectful to those times when I have felt such blessings in my life. There is another fear too. The fear of being wrong. What if everything I ever believed in was wrong? What if I have believed in a lie? What if I turned my back and then it's all true? What if I'm going to hell? What if it's all nothing and everyone was incorrect?
Because I feel like there is this void that is about to suck me under and I don't know what I'm supposed to do. The thought of it makes it very difficult for me to breathe and I feel panicked. Heck, maybe I am depressed but it doesn't feel like it. Only when I think of all of this.
anyhow, the unitarian church, as I understand it, welcomes all faiths. If you are a Christian, or wikkan, or agnostic, or Muslim, or Jewish, or an atheist, I think that their view is simply that you are welcome. They have classes that teach how to create your own theology and come up with your own religious creedo. Again, totally different from the way that I have been raised.
Gosh, I sound so morbid. This is really difficult for me to talk about. It's as though simply acknowledging all of this makes it so much more real.
Meka
Hi Meka:
Nice seeing you around here again, even under what are for you somewhat difficult circumstances.
I guess I want to echo Bob's wishes for good fortune and peace on this part of your quest. The only thing I can add to what he said and what you said is that God wants us to have free will. By raising your questions, you are exercising just that. I can also tell you that I once had a minister as a boss on my Church job that said some of the most committed Christians have been scheptics at one time or another.
Keep us posted.
Lou
Hello Meka, people change from time to time and I would say this is one of those times. I wouldn't say you are disrespectful if you do go to a different church or change your beliefs. Those times were important to you and so are stil valuable. Don't worry about what people think of your beliefs or which church you do go too. In the end it's up to you in what you do believe and what you do. Good luck and all the best to you. Hope it works out.
Meka,
First off, would have loved to talk to you about this last night on the phone. If I had known then what I do now. I am amazed at how well you kept this all out of the phone conversation.
I don't know how much help I can actually be here, but I'll give my ramblings a shot.
I was raised in the Catholic church. I have gone through all of the religion classes and sacraments that go along with attending church every Sunday. I've had many questions along the way and have asked some. But I am still lost about a lot of the christian religion overall. I don't agree with some of the Catholic beliefs and some have said that I am not a Catholic for this. I don't agree but a totally different subject there.
I haven't had a large amount of experience of going to different churches. And I feel that is in part to not sure if I would fit in or having that fear of rejection or the unknowing.
A lot of the times I am confused about my faith. I am constantly second guessing if there is in fact a God and things like heaven and hell honestly frighten me. I don't like the unknowing of it all.
I wouldn't necessarily say that I have seen miracles in my life, but I do believe that there have been times in life that if it weren't for God, I am not sure how I would have made it through. And in saying that, I think to myself how I could possibly doubt that there is a God.
I also live in confusion when it comes to religion and faith. Maybe not exactly the same things as you, but I kind of can understand where you are coming from.
Um ok, must stop rambling because I'm not even sure I am making a bit of sense or even helping here.
Although I call myself a Catholic, I am a christian over all. I have the belief that no matter what church you attend, not a single one is totally right. I try to read the bible and take what I can from the churches I have attended and also through talking with friends. I don't have an answer to my own confusions about it all, so I can't really give you an answer.
But basically what I'm getting at is, in my opinion, there would be nothing wrong with you trying out a new church. I feel that it may bring you closer to some of the things you are asking about. And if the Unitarian church isn't the one for you, there are many other one to choose from.
I hope I have helped at least a little bit and my ramblings aren't just sleep deprived stupidity.
Pipi
Meka,
I'm very curious to hear about your experience at the unitarian church. i've been considering attending a service at one for some time. I was born/raised Catholic, and still feel a connection to Catholicism. However, recently, the pope said that all non-catholic Christian churches are not true churches of Jesus, or something. I don't remember exactly what he said, only that it made me angry. About the only thing that interests me in a Catholic church now is reaching out to the youth, whom I feel, at least locally in Utah, are often forgotten. Or getting involved in the music. Both of those things are important. Theologically, I'm a very free spirit. I take what I want from Catholic doctrins and reject the rest. I don't really know where, if anywhere, I fit in spiritually.
Please, post about your experiences on the boards, or PM me. I'd love to hear about it!
And sorry if this post wasn't particularly helpful. I just had to speak up.
-John
Hello:
I'd like to thank everyone who has responded to this topic. I was afraid of posting this question because I wasn't sure of what I would receive. It was almost as though I were bracing myself to catch arrows, and right now I just can't seem to duck fast enough.
I'm planning on visiting the Unitarian church, if not tomorrow, sometime very soon. I went to a picnic and spoke to one of my friends who is in the Bahai faith. I'd try to explain what Bahai is, but I'd probably butcher the explanation and the premise. I believe that they say that all roads lead to God, no matter what your path is, but theirs is an actual religion, whereas the Unitarian church seems to be a conglomeration of all cultures and belief systems.
I plan on going to a Bahai devotional soon and I will be certain to keep you posted on what happens.
Also, I want to thank you for posting your feelings and beliefs. Pippi, you didn't sound like you were rambling at all, and it feels good to know that others at least can understand where I am coming from and that I haven't fallen off of the deep end. *smiles*
Now that I have a plan of action, I do feel somewhat better. I'm going to be doing some reading, some prayer, and deep thinking. Sometimes, I feel so very fragmented and as though I won't ever find whatever it is that I am looking for in order to be a whole person. It's a scary thought, but at least I can acknowledge that I actually feel that way.
Thank you all for your responses and for simply being the understanding people that you are. I wish I had a concrete answer.
I want to know who stole the manual to life's little issues. I could have sworn there was a solution written under the heading of 'Spiritual Frustration'. *laughs*
Take care.
Meka
As a Catholic I feel as thought I must support the new Pope! Meka I've been to the Baptist Church many times with my friend! Like my mom says there's only one God! My mom says I'm devoted to my faith! Meka do you mean the Buddhist faith! Wow a church where you can go if you're Christian or Jewish! I never heard of the other faiths you spoke about Meka!
Not to start a huge debate here, but you support a pope who would say, basically, that all other non-Catholic faiths don't count/are less significant/are unimportant? I find that incredibly hard to swallow.
YesJohn at least I think that's your name! Pope Benidict is what the Church needs! Someone to get the Catholic Church heading the way it should! He brought the Latin Mass back and that's grate!
As a Christian, and a preacher, I'd like to weigh in on this one a bit if I may! I attend a baptist church, but that does not make me affiliated with a baptist faith, religion, or whatever name you wish to slap on it. I believe the church I attend most closely models the New Testament church, and if I found someplace that did it better, then that's where I'd be a part. I believe the Bible in all matters of faith and practice, no matter what the pope, Billy Graham, or any other religious leader has to say. If they say something the Bible can back up, I'm with them. If they contradict the Bible, I'm against them. Trust the Bible. It's more honest than religion.
Jesse so you're Baptist, I don't have a probblem with that! Most of my friends are Baptist by the way!
Well I'm glad you don't have a problem with that, because it wouldn't matter a whole heck of a lot if you did. Smile!
We're agreeing to disagree on this one. Pope benedict is trying, and succeeding, to undo everything JP II did for the church. All the outreach he did for the youth could be ruined by the pope trying to reinstitute the Latin mass. And it makes me incredibly sad.
I hope none of my local perishes go back to the Latin mass. Ever. If they do, I can find one that doesn't, somewhere. and I will, I promise.
I'm done.
Smiles back Jesse! You've always been a good friend to me! John I'm praying that our church goes back to Latin! I think it would be neat! I thought this board was to help Meka out! Not for us to agree to disagree?
Well, that was its initial purpose yes. However, as seems to happen around here, this topic has evolved. Heh.
Lol John sorry if I hurt your feelings! That wasn't my intent, I guess I get fired up about my faith! I didn't know I had that in me! Seeing as I have Baptist, Lutheran and Jewish friends!
Hmm, interesting topics.
I think we all have issues with our faith (except perhaps the atheists amongst us) from time to time. For me it's hard to reconcile what I see at church to my personal philosophy. My problem with at least the lutherine masses I've been to lately seems to be that free thinking is discouraged, we get the "we are all but helpless sheep" speech, as if we have no brains, no conscience, we just have to blindly (pardon the pun) follow the bible in all matters rather than to follow our "heart" or use our brains and distilled values to come up with the right answer. I think the bible is a great companion and moral guide, after all, whether you are a Christian or not, the social principles advocated in the bible make perfect sense for living together as people. But I feel there is too much emphasis on kindness out of fear, fear of going to hell, fear of punishment, never is there kindness for kindnesses sake, because this is how you want to be treated or how you feel it is right to treat others.
And still it bothers me that someone who always helped and gave all his money, say, to charity, could go to hell just because hhe never heard of Christianity, whereas a serial killer just has to repent on his death bed and finds the gates wide open for him. How can it be fair if said good man never got a chance to hear about his salvation. It feels like this approach deprives us of all responsibility for our actions and I, for one, don't like it.
I still consider myself a Christian, I am having huge issues reconciling that faith with my sense of right and wrong and I kind of realize it is tempting to skip over the stricter parts or regulations because they are inconvenient, but that would be true for any religion.
I still don't understand why sleeping with someone is such a horrible thing if you are not married, for instance, if it's a devoted loving relationship why is that a sin and something ugly. And why should catholic priests not be married, as we have seen the ones that are unmarried turn weird and take it out on teenage boys, at least too many of them do, and how can that be for the good of God.
Anyways, I don't expect answers for my musings, not on this board and I guess I'll have to find them myself, but I just find some of those points interesting. There may be a perfectly fine way to reconcile all those beliefs and I am pretty convinced there is being or power out there we do not understand, we are limited in our thinking and reasoning, be it by language, lack of brain capacity, maturity etc.
Well, I haven't gone to church for quite some time either, but I know that there is a god, and that we will all see him one day. I had a crissis whebn my sister who was just 22, died of an anurisim. I lost my way for a few months, but friends of mine. helped me to find the path again!
May the glory of the lord shine on you all
I was raised as a catholic but have had issues with the church. to me as long as you believe, then that's all that matters. I pray a lot and I hope that I am forgiven. and if people judge you by what you choose to believe in, well there the ones with a problem. God bless. B
I agree with that point
These are all very interesting posts.
thanks
Hey Meeka, I don'T know about the church you talk about, but I really want to encourage you to try nad be strong. I Will pray for you. Do you have some other friends you can pray with while you have no particular church you go to? This is so important. If not, and if you still are here sometimes and if you like, just send me a PM and we can just talk a little longer. I am attending a kind of bible school at the moment, and even though I might not be able to help you about that church you would like to go to, maybe I could help you in other ways.
I believe in spiritual gifts, praying in tongues, healing and all that. Because God is the same yesterday, today and forever and when the first followers could do that, we can do that too. If people don't like that or are scared of that, I understand. The faith and the love for God is the most important.
It is good that you try to keep the faith. I'll definitely pray for you.
God bless.
Ines
Well, I have had this thing before. I felt that my church is wrong a lot. What you might have to do is maybe change your beliefs a bit. Go in to a different denomination perhaps. I learnt, with true baptists they don't suit me well. So, I am undenominational right now. I think I might be that forever. I also decided I believed something very different to some, and some have. I decided to put all my prejudices apart, and try my hand at no prejudices. Believe it or not, I was part of the extremests for about six or seven months before I decided that wasn't for me either. I also chose to go the way without converting anyone. I decided I just need my cool, and if the truth can bring anyone to Christ, then , well, great, and if not, great also. Yeh, My advice